An Inclusive, Interdisciplinary Approach to Spirituality Without Dogma or Religion
Alchemical Dialogues - from Lead to Gold
Alchemical Dialogues are live and unscripted conversations recorded on Zoom brought to you by the great folks of Amber Light International. We choose topics from our current social and cultural climate, with an emphasis on humanism and spirituality. In a cross-collaboration with both Lisa Carley's new podcast The Labyrinth, and Joel Lesses' Unraveling Religion podcast, we have begun posting 'Selected, Best of The Labyrinth' and 'Selected, Best of Unraveling Religion' episodes on Alchemical Dialogues. We continue to promote conversations that evolve our understanding of the vital topics of spirituality, the humanities, psychology, and The Arts and deepen community through this mutual support. Please check these out! If you would like to participate in our podcast, please contact us using this form.
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Part 2 continues panel discussion by exploring the lived experience of unity, spirituality, and what it means to feel ‘at home’ in the universe, beginning with reflections on whether healing and awakening dissolve the sense of separation. Andy, drawing from his 12-step recovery background, describes spirituality as a relationship with a higher power understood personally, sharing that his connection takes shape through Christian symbolism rooted in his upbringing. He emphasizes that this framework is not exclusive, but a language through which he experiences alignment, meaning, and a sense that everything in existence is placed in right relationship. Central to his path is humility—learning to recognize value in all people and to move beyond ego-driven identity. The conversation expands into spiritual awakening as both gradual and sudden, drawing on William James’ distinction between ‘educational’ awakenings and sudden insight, with participants noting that suffering, hindsight, and breakthrough moments all contribute to a growing awareness of interconnectedness. Themes of non-separation emerge across traditions, including Zen and Advaita Vedanta, where suffering is understood as rooted in the illusion of a separate self, and healing arises through re-experiencing unity—both psychologically and physically in the body. Humility as a balance between recognizing higher forces and maintaining personal agency The idea that all relationships—including with the divine—are reciprocal rather than one-directional A Sufi perspective, influenced by Inayat Khan, describing the universe as moving toward love, harmony, and beauty The concept of a ‘pull of the future’ shaping evolution alongside past causes Parallels to scientific ideas of uncertainty and unfolding potential within the universe Joel offers a complementary perspective on karma, rooted in mystical traditions, emphasizing that every thought, action, and intention generates corresponding effects that return ‘measure for measure,’ shaping future experience. He frames reality as an interplay between seen and unseen dimensions, where intentionality—especially loving-kindness—acts as... View Article
Alchemical Dialogues and Unraveling Religion co-hosts Joel Lesses and Henry Cretella convene a panel exploring spirituality, recovery, philosophy, and science through lived experience, centered on the theme of transformation as an embodied, ongoing process. Part 1 Ben, a therapist and former addiction counselor, reflects on his journey through trauma, psychosis, and recovery, including an ego death experience that reframed his life through the lens of rebirth. He describes moving from feeling unsafe in his body to cultivating grounding through breath and meditation. Andrew, trained in physics, shares his experiences with bipolar disorder, atheism, and long-term substance use, ultimately finding recovery and a return to a sense of inner peace, identifying addiction as an attempt to fill a deeper spiritual void. Rich Grego, a philosopher and Professor of religion and metaphysics, introduces his scholarly background while emphasizing his continued existential questioning, highlighting the gap between intellectual understanding and lived spiritual experience. Henry Cretella, a psychiatrist influenced by Inayat Khan, describes a syncretic approach to spirituality, drawing from multiple traditions while seeking a unifying thread, and challenges the idea of ‘pure’ traditions by pointing to nature as inherently evolving and interconnected. Joel builds on this by referencing Eihei Dogen’s idea of ‘many languages, one tongue,’ suggesting that different traditions express a shared source, and introduces the central inquiry ‘What am I?’ as a core spiritual question. The discussion explores addiction as existential longing, reframing the restless search for meaning as a potential catalyst for transformation, and examines the relationship between humans and nature, questioning whether any true separation exists. Joel emphasizes language as a uniquely human capacity that shapes reality, while Henry dissolves the distinction between humans and nature, asserting that all phenomena arise from the same natural processes. Themes of unity and non-dual awareness emerge, with connection understood as internal rather than... View Article
God (Tao) says, ‘be what I made you to be!’God (Tao) is found in relationships.Does God want us to know Him (or ourselves) most intimately?Dependent Co-arising?‘Simultaneously, I and all beings attain the Way’ (Awaken to Reality) ~Buddha‘Essentially, outside of me, nothing exists’Verse 18What does it mean to let go?What do we let go of?To be human is to be attached?Closes with Verse 81, and then Joel reads two poems by Ikkyu. Biographies of Panel: Dr. Bob Insull is an New York State Licensed Psychologist with more than 60 years experience teaching, training, and treating in the arena of human behavior. In his clinical practice, he has worked across the developmental stages (children to golden-agers), across the diagnostic spectrum (chemical dependency, severe mental illness, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and PTSD), and treatment settings (clinics, inpatient psychiatric centers, and private practice). During the closing years of his practice, he became interested in the area of psychological trauma and worked with survivors in individual and group settings. He has been retired from active practice for about 15 years and spends his time engaged in self-discovery on the Sufi Path and social-change activities with his church. —— Brian Mistler enjoys communing with fellow inquirers and reflecting together on revealed perennial wisdom. Hari Om Tat Sat. Peace, peace, peace. ——- Richard Grego is Professor of philosophy and cultural history at FSCJ. His research interests focus on cross-cultural themes in religion and science – including philosophy of mind, comparative world religions/world civilizations, and the metaphysical – theological implications of theoretical physics and cosmology. His publications have included studies in the history – philosophy of science and conceptions of nature in the history of western philosophy, as well as cross-cultural perspectives on mind/ consciousness in western philosophy – psychology and the neo-Vedanta Hindu tradition. Prior to his... View Article
In this exploration of the Tao Te Ching and other traditions, the conversation opens to introductions of the five Panelists and an invocation of hope of others to investigate the Tao Te Ching. Bob, Brian, Rich, Henry and Joel share Verse 1 and questions arise: What is Reality?Is the Tao Reality?What is the Tao?What does the term Anti-foundational mean?Reversal Yin/ Yang in relation to Tao.Paradox and the Tao.Everyday consciousness is the pathway to the Tao.What is the relationship with Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and Tao?What does silence offer in relation to the Tao?The Beginningless Beginning?Is the Tao directly knowable?Tibetan Buddihsm and the Tao.Verse 17 and Verse 38 are explored.Wu Wei.How do we serve God?How do we serve Tao?Why did God create? Biographies of Panel: Dr. Bob Insull is an New York State Licensed Psychologist with more than 60 years experience teaching, training, and treating in the arena of human behavior. In his clinical practice, he has worked across the developmental stages (children to golden-agers), across the diagnostic spectrum (chemical dependency, severe mental illness, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and PTSD), and treatment settings (clinics, inpatient psychiatric centers, and private practice). During the closing years of his practice, he became interested in the area of psychological trauma and worked with survivors in individual and group settings. He has been retired from active practice for about 15 years and spends his time engaged in self-discovery on the Sufi Path and social-change activities with his church. ——- Brian Mistler enjoys communing with fellow inquirers and reflecting together on revealed perennial wisdom. Hari Om Tat Sat. Peace, peace, peace. ——- Richard Grego is Professor of philosophy and cultural history at FSCJ. His research interests focus on cross cultural themes in religion and science – including philosophy of mind, comparative world religions/world civilizations, and the metaphysical –... View Article
Naomi Shihab Nye opens the talk reading a new, recently penned poem, Current Affairs. Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish then introduces himself and segways into the realities of his experiences growing up in Gaza, the Jabalia Camp, what he has seen and witnessed, the loss of his three daugthers and niece in 2009 from an Israeli tank shell (i.e., I Shall Not Hate) and his pride in his Palestinan heritage, family, and community. He shares his deep belief and conviction ‘nothing is impossible in life.‘ He also expresses: Naomi shares her family history and the experiences of relocating after the Nakba. Naomi also shares: The idea, our obligation is to our humanity, looking within our selves we recognize our humanity Dr Abuelaish shares his experiences as an author. The priority of Palestinians toward education. Human Rights, respect and dignity for all. What is our modern sense of responsibility and obligation toward our fellow humans, what is our modern sense of meaning, mission, and purpose. A human being is a human being [only] through another person. Truth telling as means of healing. The situation is Gaza and West Bank harms Israel deeply as well. Naomi shares Hibu Abu Nabab‘s poem, Not Just Passing. The political power and politics contrbuting to the crisis in Gaza and the West Bank. Dr. Abuelaish reviews the history of Gaza since 2000. And, Naomi closes with her poem, For Gaza The children are still singing They need & want to sing They are carrying cats to safe places Holding what they can hold Red hair brown hair yellow They will wear the sweater Someone threw away They will hope for something tasty You won’t be able to own them Their spirits fly to safer worlds They planted seashells in the sand They never committed a crime A president pardons turkeys He pardons his own son He doesn’t pardon children... View Article
Part 2 the Panels opens to discuss: Discussion turns to Rumi’s quote ‘when I was young I wanted to change the world, when I grew older I wanted only to change myself.’ How do we attune to spiritual teachers? How do we know who our spiritual teachers are meant to be? Moments that open and we lose sense of time, time falls away: The Panel also explores: The importance of ‘others before self.’ We end with two poems from Ikkyu: Raincoat and Straw Hat Woodcutters and fishermen know just how to use things.What would they do with fancy chairs and meditation platforms?In straw sandals and with a bamboo staff, I roam three thousand worlds,Dwelling by the water, feasting on the wind, year after year. I Hate The Smell of IncenseA master’s handiwork cannot be measuredBut still priests wag their tongues explaining the ‘Way’ and babbling about ‘Zen.’This old monk has never cared for false pietyAnd my nose wrinkles at the dark smell of incense before the Buddha.
Part 1 of this discussion examines psychology, philosophy, religion, spiritually, science, and medicine, a panel of five (5) people opens with the question, ‘where am I?’ and ‘what is going on [in the world]?’ and refers to James Hillman, ideas and action as an artificial distinction, are they the same thing? How are they interlinked? The poet Major Ragain is quoted, ‘contemplation alters the course of rivers.’ From the Bhagavad Gita: Ghandi’s, ‘through service, I find myself.’ The Panel begins to examine the Taoist concept of non-action, Wu Wei. How do we cultivate Wu Wei? The Panel explores Univerisal Truths. Biographies of Panel: Dr. Bob Insull is an New York State Licensed Psychologist with more than 60 years experience teaching, training, and treating in the arena of human behavior. In his clinical practice, he has worked across the developmental stages (children to golden-agers), across the diagnostic spectrum (chemical dependency, severe mental illness, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and PTSD), and treatment settings (clinics, inpatient psychiatric centers, and private practice). During the closing years of his practice, he became interested in the area of psychological trauma and worked with survivors in individual and group settings. He has been retired from active practice for about 15 years and spends his time engaged in self-discovery on the Sufi Path and social-change activities with his church. Brian Mistler is a Missouri-hillbilly curious about Reality. He has lived as a computer scientist, psychologist, running and growing businesses, and helping entrepreneurs, hospitals, and healthcare providers. Mid-life Brian had a partially debilitating nerve injury and soon after met a true Vedanta teacher who spent 30+ years in India and trained under Swami Chimayananda, Sawmi Dayananda, and others. This refocused his study of the classic non-dual wisdom as presented in the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. Learn more at http://www.stillcenter.media. Hari Om Tat Sat. Peace, peace, peace. Richard Grego is Professor of philosophy and... View Article
On February 7th, 2023, Chris Meek interviewed Joel for the podcast Next Steps Forward, and explored: Does God Exist?How does meditation reveal God?What is the nature of evil?Where does God exist?Can we experience God directly?Why are we here on earth?What is the purpose of life?Why does God ask us to struggle?Does morality matter?Is there life after death?What is a koan? Next Steps Forward is a podcast hosted by Chris Meek, the Mission Statement of the podcast: Personal empowerment, commitment to our own well-being and the motivation to achieve more than we ever thought possible are the ingredients of a better life. And, they’re all within our reach. Next Steps Forward with Chris Meek delves into each aspect of the three keys that add energy, excitement, direction and purpose to everything that we do. Each week, Chris hosts leaders from the worlds of business, sports, entertainment, medicine, politics and public policy as they engage in thought-provoking discussions to help us all take the next step forward on our own journeys to our better selves and greater service to others. Biography Co-founder, Chairman, and CEO of SoldierStrong, Chris Meek has been recognized for his philanthropy with the President’s Call to Service Award, March of Dimes Franklin Delano Roosevelt Outstanding Corporate Citizen Award, Syracuse University’s Orange Circle Award, the ACT-IAC “Game Changer” Award, and was named a “Face of Philanthropy” by the Chronicle of Philanthropy. He discusses resiliency, empowerment, and leadership through adversity on his weekly podcast, “Next Steps Forward with Chris Meek,” via VoiceAmerica network’s Empowerment Channel. Next Steps Forward is his first book. Joel David Lesses founded the Education Training Center as a means of counseling those marginalized by trauma, addiction and psychological distress, and its effects including incarceration, homelessness and institutionalization. He is dedicated to reframing mental health distress as... View Article
In today’s The Labyrinth podcast, Lisa Carley interviews retired psychiatrist Henry Cretella to share both his philosophy and personal experience with surrender. We begin our conversation with Eckart Tolle’s view that surrender requires an expansion (and often suspension) of our rational mind. From there, we discuss the general nature of surrender and the role of intuition. We move into sharing stories about times when we felt a deep intuition/calling to stretch the boundaries of our limited rational frameworks and take a leap. The podcast ends with Hazrat Inayat Khan’s essay on the future of humankind. Bio of Lisa Carley Hosting the podcast, ‘The Labyrinth,’ Lisa Carley is passionate about India, existential and phenomenological philosophy/psychology, and maternal mental health. She chooses to explore her passion through travel, connection with others, and writing. She holds a degree in English Literature from SUNY Albany, and has worked toward a Psy. D. in Clinical Psychology with a Masters in Existential Humanistic Psychology from Saybrook, is a mother, student of Philosophy and English, artisan, and poet.
Recorded for Alchemical Dialogues podcast, Henry Cretella hosts Lisa Carley regarding mental health and spirituality and Lisa’s lived experience. Avoiding and easing unnecessary suffering is a worthwhile goal, but so is the less often discussed opportunity for transformation that distress provides. Mystics teach that the heart and mind open through suffering. The good news is that we don’t have to look for upsets, they find us quite easily. Join Henry Cretella and Lisa Carley as we discuss her journey through mental illness and how it led to her personal heart-mind opening and impacted her life for the better. It’s a journey of courage to explore and change, using all the tools that are available to understand and ease the pain while never closing the door that has been unlocked. Host of her podcast, ‘The Labyrinth,’ Lisa Carley is passionate about India, existential and phenomenological philosophy/psychology, and maternal mental health. She chooses to explore her passion through travel, connection with others, and writing. She holds a degree in English Literature from SUNY Albany, and has worked toward a Psy. D. in Clinical Psychology with a Masters in Existential Humanistic Psychology from Saybrook, is a mother, student of Philosophy and English, artisan, and poet.
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The opinions expressed by the guests in these podcasts are not necessarily the opinions of Amber Light International and anyone associated with this organization.
